Practical Access Podcast

S:1 E:16: Self-Advocacy online and offline

April 24, 2020 Photo by Julie Molliver on Unsplash Season 1 Episode 16
Practical Access Podcast
S:1 E:16: Self-Advocacy online and offline
Show Notes Transcript

Drs. Rebecca Hines and Lisa Dieker, UCF Faculty members, share their thoughts on the importance of self-advocacy. They share their thoughts in helping students with disabilities and as a parent how advocacy changed over time.  They discuss the importance of students knowing their strengths and understanding their abilities and challenges to give them a voice to advocate for their own needs. 

Join as we start Season 2 focused on soft skills in life for children with disabilities, their families, and the educational professionals in their lives. 


spk_0:   0:04
Welcome to practical access. I'm Lisa Dieker. I'm Rebecca Hines. So, Becky, what are we gonna talk about this time?

spk_1:   0:14
Well, they said the questions that I've been asked lately,  love than have to do with self advocacy. And you know what we need to think about in terms of kids today Working from home. Even when they're in school, you know, how do we get kids to better understand how to advocate for themselves?

spk_0:   0:37
So what do you think? And I'll let you start. That's a tough one.

spk_1:   0:40
Well, thanks a lot. Well, I'm thinking, first of all, that kids, you know, matter are their ability level. I feel like I don't fully understand self advocacy in general, So I don't think that it's an issue specifically of disability. I think that when I think of self advocacy, I do think of kids with more significant needs sometimes because again, personal experience. So I think that that discussing this topic starts with understanding what it means in and of itself. So this idea of how do you advocate in general? And what does that mean? And then how do you advocate for yourself? So I think the first thing I would say is, as as teachers, getting kids to start making decisions and even his parents getting kids to start making decisions is the first step. So maybe rethinking what kids can make safe decisions about out. So you mentioned in the last episode this idea of giving kids choice and giving them choice on crop, you know, assignments and stuff. But maybe it's choices, you know, one step further than that. Even, you know, maybe it is a choice of you know what? I'm not a great beat, stellar. So I'm going to choose to turn this in an audio, but adding that layer of language, It's not just that I'm making the chill that I fully understand to myself why I'm doing it that way. So for teachers, I think if we can start layering and I'm not saying you have kids disclose that. But if I must teacher of a student with an IEP in particular, I do want them to start thinking about what, What kind of tools? What options do they have and why are they choosing what they are?

spk_0:   2:30
Yeah, and I'm gonna go I'm gonna go parent on this one. If you had met my son in third grade, mandatorily retained in the state of Florida, you would have projected maybe. And you hung out with me at that time. But he may be a high school diploma for got Lucky Community college if we didn't really well, well, we went way beyond that. But I do think one of the things that we have missing for kids, wherever online, are face to face is this natural discussion about disability. I think we talk about race, class, gender, even poverty and don't think it's taboo. But if we talk about Tourette's or learning disabilities like and again, I don't think we should be talking about the kids should. And I think if I did anything right, my husband and I very early on had just talk a lot about his Tourette's. And today he's an ambassador for the Trent Syndrome Association because he's comfortable and talk about it. So whatever level it kid is comfortable and you know, everybody is my son. My son has great social skills, and he's very outgoing. Some other kids wouldn't be as comfortable, but whatever level the kid is comfortable, I think, sharing some aspect of the IEP. Look, this information says you are a rock star mathematician. poor spelling. You might wanna count on Siri, and you might want somebody proof read, even after Siri has done it, because you don't know which word is which with the team without a T, you know? So I think it's that level of understanding yourself that I think is the beginning of Self magazine. How do you do that online? Well, I think it it starts by having those conversations. But again, is that conversation with this is an opportunity with the parents and the student together. Could we have a conversation about the IEP together? And I think my favorite thing I've ever seen in it in a school is the students not only lead their own IEP conferences, they actually had three slides. Here's what I'm good at, and I love the fact I think advocate, you got into what you're good at. I think we often come from a deficit model and I think a strength model. The second thing they said, is this is what I need help with that I love the third side. Here's what I want people to put on my plan. And I think reminding ourselves this isn't a plan for educators or for parents is a plan for the kid sitting on line. And I think that's what we have to help articulate in whatever manner the family is comfortable with and the child has come to with and that the child can understand or the young adult hunts.

spk_1:   4:54
Yeah, well, I think I think you're exactly right. And those conversations, we even in the online environment when we have those moments, is a lot of the special ed teachers that I've been talking to working with. They are still having these smoke goal setting, talking to kids individually via, you know, any number of Web based chats. And really, this is the chance to do that. You know what supports do you need? Why? How are we gonna communicate that to your teacher? Have you asked your teacher for this? You know I'm having some really specific discussions. Kids do need to start learning to ask for supports. I do think it's important for kids to be able to articulate. Why so asking more. Why questions of kids? That's a deeper level of thinking, that I don't think we always pushed them, too. And maybe these really one on one discussions that we're having with kids. Right now, maybe they do need to start that way. I wanted to mention also Lisa, that, you know, for kids with more significant needs. You know, we're kind of talking about those kids who who might might have good communication skills, even for those kids who don't have great communication skills. Or we might not know their true intellectual ability, starting to give them any kind of choice, even at home. As you mentioned, if I put two things in front of my child and say, Which one do you want point to the one you want? That is the very basis and the basics of getting started on that idea of making decisions and starting to learn to any for yourself.

spk_0:   6:37
Yeah, but I think I would be remiss if I didn't also share with parents or teachers listening. Just a reminder that yes, no matter the age in the range choice seems to be a theme for us in a podcast in general. But I do think that it's also a choice as students go on. I think people don't realize the eyepiece stocks when the student leaves the public school system. And really, college is about a choice. It's not. You get an IEP when you go to college, but that's where choice becomes the most important. And and again I reflect in just for those you don't know. My son Josh graduated with a four year degree with a 3.6 GPA. You'll be like a my mom's sharing my DP a nationally, but didn't expect that winning  into college. But I think he learned technology skills. He learned advocate, and when I love is, he would go to his first class, and he would decide which professors he would send an email to right away and which ones he would wait a week to get to know a little better before he sent them an email because, he said, I don't want people be afraid because I have Tourette's. But he wrote the letter he sent the email. Yes, of course I had to edit it cause he spells creatively is all I will say, But the fact that he made that decision instead of his mother called the university to talk to the disabilities office. That's what I think we forget. If our kids are gonna be independent, when whatever level they're capable of being independent, it has to come from them, whether it's what I'm gonna eat if I have significant disabilities, to whether I'm going to let a professor know about my disability, whether I'm going to go to college. And I think we forget that sometimes his parents it's really hard when your kid is a first or second grade with new diagnosis and say, Is there a future? You're like? No. Yet I will tell you as a future comes, have a CSI and choice really accord about

spk_1:   8:29
and problem solving, I think, is really hand in hand with this epic. You see, it's just like you mentioned with Josh. It's also important for kids and adults to understand. You know, what are the steps? What what steps in my mind to do? I go through when I do advocate for myself and somebody tells me No, you know, how do I solve that? What are the steps to solving a problem. You know, I think we do have to get back to really teaching the steps of problem solving two kids, but especially reinforcing it for those kids who may be in a position that there have been an advocate for themselves on the job later, in colleges you mentioned, or just even within the family sometimes do they know what to do when they hit that first

spk_0:   9:21
hurdle? Yeah, I just have to share a great left there, so I got the call. You know, Mom, my rights have been violated. This has happened from third grade forward. That's the danger of getting giving your kid basic skills. And I won't say what level this was at, but it but was denied extra time on his final in a writing exam. And I said so what you gonna do about it goes, Well, I'm gonna go back to the strategies. I know he's He's a big lover of Pao Tree, thanks to some training he received from some of the dissertation. And so he said, I'm gonna use poetry, and I'm not gonna do extra. And I got out. I said, Would you write about he said. I wrote about being discriminated against and not being allowed to use my accommodations. He was like today, But I thought, you know, now that is true self advocacy. You didn't give it to me. Now I'm gonna tell you why. So you know, again, I don't. I think the world is not fair on yet. What fair means is everybody gets what he or she needs when they need it. For some reason that he didn't get it, but he found a way to adjust and pivot. And I think that's that's what self EVC is to is that you fight. But at some point you just say it's not worth the fight. I gotta move on and do what I need to do! And I think you and I built I'm seeing that throughout our lives.

spk_1:   10:34
Well, we've lived that throughout our lives and our career. Sometimes you run into a hurdle that turned out to be a wall, you know, But most of the time it's our true hurdle that you can actually get over and and helping kids to learn again to approach that positively. Making sure we have again while you're at home with your kids. Put them in a position I shouldn't have to solve. Solve a problem. That is what self advocacy is it helping to be a part of that problem solving experience.

spk_0:   11:08
So I'm gonna end. My last thought here is You know, I also think we talked about kids strength. I'm to think there's a reality check, but kids need sometimes, too. About what you good at and what do you not good at. So again, I'll go back to Josh. You'll love this time. Castile have sentiments with specifically, but, you know, you can't get out of bed. And so he actually got a job working. The night shift is perfect cause you don't have to get out of bed to work the night shift. But even during school, we tried different timers, different alarm clocks. I hadn't planned on Vicky that rolled off the bed. He had to chase it around there. It didn't matter. I ended up chasing the stinking alarm clock. So I think also as part of stuff, obviously is You know, I'm really not good at being I could be flexible, but I can't be unscheduled And you know that about me. I think we all have our strengths and weaknesses. And I don't think self ever see is only about knowing your strengths. But it's understanding how to mitigate those weaknesses, to make everybody around you, not one to choke you or be upset. Yeah,

spk_1:   12:06
and to realize you have you have you have a voice, you know, whether physically for Italy, we all have a voice. I'm figuring out how to find it and use it, whether it's verbally, whether it's non verbally but in a in a productive way is key.

spk_0:   12:23
All right, well, thank you for joining us for practical excess. You can send us your questions on Twitter @accesspractical.