S6 E9: Inclusion in Practice with Dr. Ilene Wilkins

UCP is Where Passion Meets Purpose. Today, Drs. Lisa Dieker and Rebecca Hines sit down with Dr. Ilene Wilkins to talk about what makes UCP's Philosophy unique in bringing Support, Education, and Therapy to children of all abilities.

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Link to YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UCPCFL

Transcript

Lisa Dieker  0:10  
Welcome to Practical Access. I'm Lisa Dieker.

Rebecca Hines  0:12  
And I'm Rebecca Hines. And today, Lisa, I'm going to go ahead and take the lead on introducing our guest. Today's guest has a wide range of experience, currently is a superintendent of a charter school district, as well as a CEO of UCP of Central Florida and that is Dr. Eileen Wilkins. Welcome to the to the show, Eileen. We're going 

Dr. Ilene Wilkins
Thank you, thank you. 

Rebecca Hines  0:43  
We kind of wanted to pick your brain, kind of from a bird's eye view and right down to the practical so as Lisa and Ilene know, Dr. Wilkins and I have collaborated on projects large and small over the last probably almost 20 years now probably. And we've had a lot of of great successes. But Ilene, I'm going to ask you to put on your educator hat for this discussion. If I'm a teacher, and I'm working with somebody who is as busy as you are, who has so many responsibilities. But I feel like I have some ideas for innovation in an organization like yours, how would I go about approaching some type of new initiative? How would I get that to the top?

Dr. Ilene Wilkins  1:36  
So that's a that's a fun question. Because I do it is because, you know, you know, again, as I can't believe it's been 20 years, but it probably has been considering the ages of our kids. The you know, and I think, you know, one of the things that I always get excited about is new ideas, and somebody that's really got passion to, to try something new and to be willing to, to just, you know, so it'll work and it won't work or whatever. So but as I think about what works the best is when people bring very specific, actionable, okay, this is what I'd like to do. This is this is how much it will cost, this is the Amazon link that it will get the the five things I need for it, and, and this is what I hope to accomplish, and this is how I'm going to measure what I'm going to do. And so if they kind of think out that a little bit, and you know, it doesn't have to be, frankly, it's actually even worse when they do send you a five page version, you know, you know, I'm literally like, you know, give me five bullets, you know, give me a link to the budget and what your, what your outcomes are planned to be. And, and, you know, again, I, you know, you know, we generally it's funny, because teachers sometimes Oh, my God, I've got this project, and it's, you know, it's $500. And I could never, you know, but, but those types of things are very, you know, very easy to, you know, to fit into a budget and, you know, the teacher has that passion to just get something new and try something, you know, we're usually leaders are really excited to just support it.

Lisa Dieker  3:05  
So I love that that response. And you're right, I know, it seems like a lot. And sometimes we as teachers will take things out of our pocket instead of ask because we're afraid to ask and I love you opening that door. You know, and I think Ilene, one of the things that you've done so well, that I truly admire is I can't think of a partnership you don't have. I was starting to think of somebody you don't know or you don't have, what would be your recommendation to teachers and leaders that might be listening to this podcast, about how have you garnered so many partnerships that are not superficial, they're very deep, very meaningful, and you are very good at getting in people's pockets. So I'm curious about what that secret sauce is that you might offer to the listeners?

Dr. Ilene Wilkins  3:49  
Well, I think I think that's, again, another kind of fun question. Because we used to, you know, back when Toys R Us used to exist, we used to say we were partners r us because we, you know, we really did. And I think that really does come from the, you know, from the top leadership of truly believing that, number one, you can't do it yourself. Number two, there's no, you know, there's, there's truly, you know, one plus one is more than two and to really have that belief that, you know, you know, you can't do everything and, you know, if you could spread out what you can do, and you can share and all the rest. You know, I just recently was introduced to a partner from one of our board members who's just VR, and he had introduced us to a group that's doing some actually inclusion work in New York City. And we sat down and just talked about what they're doing what we're doing, you know, where there's some overlap. And I think that, you know, just that desire to be open minded and say, okay, you know, what can you bring to the table and not to, and, you know, always keep that focused on, you know, we're here for the kids, we're here for the good reason for the right reason. And, you know, and yes, you know, you know, don't worry about credit, don't worry about, you know, who gets, you know, written up first or whose name is first in the article or whatever. So I think you know, that mindset is really important.

Rebecca Hines  5:10  
And I'll go ahead and backtrack now for our listeners a little bit about your organizations. So you UCP of Central Florida is obviously, it's a nonprofit organization and over the years they have expanded to serve students of all abilities. And one of the things that you've managed to do, Ilene is capitalize, you know, progressively on this idea of inclusion. So our work together over the last 20 years really, really revolved around this idea of, of taking a nonprofit organization, you had some some schools at the time, but certainly nothing to the scale that you now have a turning it really into a model, inclusive organization that said, you know, there's still a wide range of services of kids of all abilities. But there's really these two hats I know that you wear it's the school side, it's also the nonprofit side. So for our listeners, who are maybe on the education side, can you give us an idea of how you see nonprofits, maybe helping to support our school systems, or maybe things that teachers or parents could do to reach out to those nonprofits that are serving some of the same types of kids that we are?

Dr. Ilene Wilkins  6:26  
Yep. Yeah, and it is, you know, as you said, you know, we really are a, you know, a unique model. I know, I know, everyone thinks they're special, but we really, you know, we really do have a unique model, because most education systems are started as a, as a school as a charter school, or, you know, a district, obviously, but we started as a as a nonprofit. So that kind of gave us an interesting lens of being able to, to, to say, okay, you know, we really want that holistic idea. So as, as, as other leaders and other teachers, and parents even think about, you know, partners, you know, really look at who's doing something similar, who's doing something, you know, maybe serving the same clientele, you know, maybe they're running in job training program, maybe they're running an after school program, and to be able to, you know, to, you know, again, go back to that win win, how can we, you know, work together, we're here for the same kids, and, and to reach out and just look at some options to be able to do that together.

Lisa Dieker  7:28  
Yeah, and I love your word together, because you're really good at that, as we said, you have lots of partnerships. But I think one of the things I've always been struck by and very much admire with the work you and your amazing network of schools and teachers and leaders do is that you are a teacher led type of system where leadership is, is in the teachers hands. And yet, you know, I know you will humbly brag about being a high achieving school with a range of disabilities in some of your sites. So what what prompted you to move to a teacher leader role? And how do you give ownership to teachers?

Dr. Ilene Wilkins  8:07  
Well, I think Dr. Hines gives a get some credit on helping to, to move that, move that to us, because, you know, again, you know, and I joked many times about, you know, I had no idea what I, what I didn't know, you know, even five years ago, seven years ago, 10 years ago, and so I think, you know, philosophically, we were there, you know, believing in shared leadership, believing in, you know, there's no bad idea from anybody, everybody has some contribution. So, you know, I think philosophically we were there, but it's still a challenge, you know, you know, we've often interviewed potential leaders, and, you know, been very specific, you know, this is not just a, you know, we, you know, we let them vote on the, you know, the color of the t-shirt type of idea, it's really, you know, the, you know, what do you philosophically what do you instructionally believe, what do you think is the best for kids, and you've got, you've got to be able to be willing to give away some power. And that's, you know, folks are not always used to doing that, or comfortable doing that. And so it's, you know, we've had some, you know, some rough times of folks, you know, yeah, they've nodded and said, yeah, yeah, we want to do that. And then when they got there, we're like, oh, you mean, that means they actually get to have a voice? Yeah, yeah, they do. And not only did they get to have a voice, but you better take that boy seriously. That, that does not mean you have to do everything that they asked for. And, you know, we, you know, we certainly had to say no, but, you know, one of the things I like to tell my leaders is, you know, you build up that, you know, what they call emotional bank account of saying yes, or maybe or let's try it, and sometimes you're gonna have to say no, and, you know, but you hopefully build up that bank account enough that, you know, when you do say no, they're like, okay, all right and they can they respect that.

Rebecca Hines  9:57  
Well, I know, obviously, I know personally, I lean and I know that you have a very, you know, matter of fact effect and you're a great leader probably because of it, because you can say no. And I know that that you fight a struggle of even being when you're willing to accept ideas, people are afraid to share them. And so I just wonder if you could give again, kind of back, it was great advice you gave me my first question. You know, if I want something, how do I ask for it? And you said, yeah, be direct, be specific. Keep it short. Tell me the action item? Let it be a yes, no decision. How do you think we can take an upper operationalize that idea of being willing to communicate with my school leaders? What What kind of? What kind of advice do you have for teachers, if they just want to come? And you've invited them to share ideas, but they're somehow just a little reluctant or scared? What's the first step?

Dr. Ilene Wilkins  11:05  
Yeah, and I think that is interesting because, you know, again, I know you and I have had this version of a conversation where, you know, we really are open, and, you know, I hate to say, but some of it, you just have to have that time of, you know, seeing other people come bring an idea at work, you know, they were able to be heard. So as far as, as for teachers, I think, you know, the idea that they, you know, obviously always be respectful always be, you know, civil, always bring it back to the purpose we're here to was just kids. So I think it's, it's sometimes hard, you know, I mean, they're, they're afraid of, you know, getting caught or yelled at, or they've had what I actually called a bad boss syndrome, where, you know, they actually did get yelled at for saying something. So just, you know, again, be persistent, be, you know, don't, don't ask somebody when they're, you know, running down the hallway, when, you know, you know, the fire drill just went off or something, you know, obviously, pick your timing and all the rest. But, you know, or maybe get a buddy, and, you know, kind of do it together, where, where you're, you know, you've got up again, you know, you know, just like anything, you know, bring what, you know what the benefit for everybody is? And that always helps, you know, to pitch something.

Rebecca Hines  12:21  
Yeah, that's, that's a great suggestion. And I'm just going to kind of close up with, you know, at the end of the day, what what, personally, whether it's from your nonprofit hat or your education hat, what do you feel like, has been the most rewarding thing you've experienced as a leader of two major organizations?

Dr. Ilene Wilkins  12:46  
I'm sorry, Becky, could you repeat that question there's an airplane going. 

Rebecca Hines  12:51  
Okay. Again, okay, so when you look back over your career, and you're the leader of two major organizations, what do you feel just personally, is, what's the feather in your cap? What's what is, what are you most proud of as a leader?

Dr. Ilene Wilkins  13:15  
Um, you know, it's funny, it's, you know, people ask a version of that, from time to time. And we actually, were just in a meeting today, and we were talking about that and, obviously, there's some, you know, some some, quote, unquote, monumental events from, you know, buildings that we built, or, or, frankly, the transition to become a charter. But, you know, those, you know, certainly make me proud and feel good, but I really still, and, you know, it's cliche, but I really do get the most, you know, pride from, you know, watching that child that, you know, that, you know, didn't fit, that's defeated a number of schools, and then is that UCP, and they're actually making a, you know, making success, or a teacher that maybe you know, how to, you know, struggled with a previous administrator and tried something different. And now he's at UCP. And, and it's just making such an impact on kids.

Lisa Dieker  14:06  
Got it. So, love it. My last question for you is it's gonna take the big picture back and give us maybe a couple of quick ideas, you're, you're what I would call a yes, and person. You're always good, I mean, we jokingly ask you for more letters than probably anybody in America because you always say yes to us and any partnerships and, and work we're doing, but how do you have as a teacher when parents want to come in, as an administrator, as a leader, an open door policy, but still not be overwhelmed at the same time? What's your what's your advice?

Dr. Ilene Wilkins  14:43  
Yeah, and that is, I mean, such a balance because you want to be open and, and, actually, in my role, you know, one of my challenges is that I do want to, quote unquote, solve problems. And you know, folks sometimes, you know, jump, you know, five levels up to you know, they want to talk to me. And, you know, even though certainly I, you know, I feel good that they feel like I'll solve the problem, you know, I really try to help folks to go down and you know, I'll mediate with you, I'll talk with them. Because it really is important that, you know, number one, you don't, you know, well, you know, overthrow the, quote, unquote, hierarchy. But you also train your folks below you to, to be able to deal with difficult situations, to be able to figure out a win, win problem solve, etc.

Lisa Dieker  15:31  
And as a classroom teacher, when parents, you just have such an open door policy for parents, I'm pretty sure you would let me sleep in the room if I felt like I needed to. How do you how do you help your teachers feel comfortable with parents being there as often as they'd like?

Dr. Ilene Wilkins  15:48  
Yeah, and I do think, again, it's the it's sort of one of those things where you just sort of build on it, you know, it, you know, you know, we all have kids, and we know that the thing you tell the kid not to do is the thing that they want to do the most. So if you tell the parent, no, you can't come in, you can't watch. Now she's, you know, now she or he is worried about, okay, why are you letting me in what, you know, what, what's going on back there? So again, it's very, it's hard, because you, you know, it's, you know, you've got your work to do. So it's sort of that, you know, you know, yes, but, you know, you can come in, but, you know, I'd like you to only come in during this time, because, you know, we're working on, you know, something that requires a little bit more concentration at this time. You know, would that work for you? Or, you know, is there something specific you'd like to see that, you know, we can make sure we're showing you?

Lisa Dieker  16:38  
Yeah, so great advice? Well, I know, you're gonna wrap us up there.

Rebecca Hines  16:42
I will, I just want to mention, because others would not be familiar with this concept but when Ilene is talking about this idea of making her school open even to parents, the schools that she has most recently built, literally have observation windows, and it's a whole new idea and it's a whole different idea. The schools are designed so that people can come in and take a look. And I think that type of transparency is really admirable. And one of the many things that we appreciate appreciate about you, Ilene. 

Lisa Dieker  17:13  
Well, thank you, Ilene for joining us, and we thank our listeners for learning from your great advice. If you have questions, you can certainly post them on our Facebook page at Practical Access or send us a Tweet @accesspractical