Practical Access Podcast

S9 E2: Co-Teaching Part 1

• Eric Imperiale • Season 9 • Episode 2

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In today’s episode, Dr. Rebecca Hines interviews Dr. Lisa Dieker about Co-Teaching.  Co-teaching is a collaborative approach to instruction in which two teachers, typically a general education teacher and a special education teacher, work together to plan and implement instruction for a class that includes students with disabilities. Tune in to this episode to hear their tips on co-teaching for teachers, and administrators, and how to get buy-in from all stakeholders.  

 Don't forget we love to hear from our listeners! If you have any questions, feel free to reach out. We look forward to receiving your questions on our Google Phone (407) 900- 9305, Facebook (Practical Access), Twitter (@AccessPractical), or Instagram (@Practical_Access).

Lisa Dieker:

Welcome to Practical Access. I'm Lisa Dieker.

Rebecca Hines:

And, I'm Rebecca Hines. And Lisa I'm really excited about this episode. You know, this season, we're talking about some of the things that we've seen, that have been impactful as you know, across the country as we've presented other people who presented and kind of a best of. So today's topic, you're going to take the lead, we're going to talk about something we both do, and both

Lisa Dieker:

Yeah, I mean, the great news is some great new research out of Boston University, somewhere in Boston, sorry. But Nate Jones, in his work in Massachusetts, has really shown this impact of co teaching. And I've really kind of tried to take my thinking about co teaching to a new level. And we always know from friend and Moravsky, and all the great interviews we've done that great co

Rebecca Hines:

Right, right. So if I'm, if I'm working in a district, and let's say, I can't afford to bring in a consultant, yeah. You know, what are some? What are some some big picture, kind of all the way down to that inverted pyramid? Where do we start at the high level?

Lisa Dieker:

Yeah, so I, I always like to think of it as like a closed loop cycle. And I think we often do parts of the loop. And think that's enough. But if we really want student learning and happy teachers, that cycle goes like this. So co planning you and I do it. But it's quick, it's efficient. It's two minutes. Here's the book in here's what I'm doing for the kid who's gifted because that's

Rebecca Hines:

will give me okay, you keep saying assessment. Yeah. So you're talking about daily assessment? Are you so Okay, so from a daily assessment level, walk me through this. So we're co teaching. Yep. And we decided as a team, hey, you know what, we need to add a layer of assessment. Okay. So what are we assessing on a daily level? How are we How does that really look?

Lisa Dieker:

Well, I think that's the mistake we don't assess unless we have that two minutes of planning to say all kids will produce this. And if all kids are going to tell us the relationship of the Delta decolonisation, boom. Now you and I know what we're looking for. We use a simple like one district tech plus minus, and all the minuses now, Becky, what are we gonna do about this minus?

Rebecca Hines:

I think this is the thing. I think it's hard sometimes to think of things like a check or a minuses data. Yeah, I think that's one of the things that's been missing just in education, in general average, has such a formal idea of data these days. So I like that idea of check, you know, minus. And who does that mean? Really

Lisa Dieker:

depends. It depends on the day we can trade that up. But here's what often happens. You and I don't have any time to plan. You're the general ed teacher, I run out of the room because I gotta go to the next co teaching room. You take everything home and grade, we give back to the kids the next day and no offense teachers, but the kid who failed a class gets this paper and goes yeah,

Rebecca Hines:

right? When When did the sidebars take pleasure out every

Lisa Dieker:

10 minutes? I should be like, you and I laugh like we see station teaching Yeah, which I love and the teacher He's like, never talked to each other the whole time. Right? So again, about every 10 minutes, I just check in you go, how's it going? miserable. Okay, great. Let's not do that anymore. And so this cycle says, we didn't know what we're gonna do. We both are trying to do it,

Rebecca Hines:

Okay, so let me operationalize this for a second. So we're co teaching and we need these sidebars, we need a few of them per class period. Correct.

Lisa Dieker:

But first, we need the two minutes. Why don't we? What are we going to sidebar about two minutes? What is your milkshake? What

Rebecca Hines:

are they gonna know? When they walk out of class today? That's what we decided upon, yep. Then we implement our lesson. Then we schedule brain breaks, and they do something independently for 60 seconds while we say okay, is this working? Absolutely. Okay. Okay. So we're scheduling those brain breaks

Lisa Dieker:

are the kids are rotating stations, and we check in with each other. So again, we have such good routines that kids know what to do. So you and I, so again, it goes back to that management too. But if we do that cycle of planning, instructing, assessing, reviewing, and put that back into our plan, we often say, Oh, well, we need another planning period. Now, a lot of that, as

Rebecca Hines:

secondary level, special education, teachers simply don't have enough time in a schedule to co plan a full planning period with every person they work with. So I say all the time, you know, Lisa, you are the most productive person I know, both personally and professionally. And one of the things that you told me early on when we were presenting together on coteaching, we were

Lisa Dieker:

I'm afraid Yeah.

Rebecca Hines:

So you explained it, as you know, you you you set a schedule, we're going to talk for five minutes about this in five minutes about this. Well, not long after we had that conversation, literally, we're on the phone, and you're like, Okay, I've got 10 minutes, we could talk for five minutes about our kids and five minutes about our presentation. I'm like, Oh, okay. And then the next

Lisa Dieker:

a presentation. That's called efficient timing.

Rebecca Hines:

Well, you're good at it lady, you are good at

Lisa Dieker:

it. So again, I just want to go back one last time for our listeners and say, you know, the center of the cycle that I think about is you have to be happy. So if you and I if my cutting you off drives you crazy, you got to talk to me about and we've got to be happy together, what our students have to be learning. And so as being happy and kids not learning, or kids learning and we

Rebecca Hines:

Quick question, from the bigger picture. I'm an administrator. I'm doing walkthroughs. What am I looking for?

Lisa Dieker:

Well, I think you're looking for those three things. Do both teachers know. And if there's an instructional aide, can they both have you walked up and said, Hey, what's the outcome today? Oh, all the kids are going to know what's a noun and a verb. Okay, great. Good. All right. And if these actually says no, no, they haven't told me that's a problem because there's a sidebar waiting to

Rebecca Hines:

case. So you're saying, for an administrator, a quick co teach walkthrough could include walking in and asking anyone in the classroom? What do you what are you learning today? And asking any teacher, how are you going to learn?

Lisa Dieker:

I'm gonna revise that not learning what is it you're gonna be expected to do by the end of this class? Okay? Because I think oftentimes the learning objective is up there, but I want a kid to write a sentence with a noun and a verb. Right? Okay, great. I'm gonna produce

Rebecca Hines:

great. So. So I agree. I see I see objectives, right? Everybody has, but yeah, but nobody is again. operationalizing that what does that gonna look? What's the product? Yes. So you're saying, I'm trying to give administers a tip here. So they're walking in? They're not just reading the objective on the board, they can ask what are you guys working on? What are you learning?

Lisa Dieker:

What are you expected to do by the end of class? That should be the first thing we tell kids when they walk in the door. So you did a class today you're going to write a sentence with a noun and a verb.

Rebecca Hines:

Okay. And I'm going to ask you, from an even more broad level, I'm a new special education coordinator in a district and I have had success with co teaching in previous districts, I believe in the model. How do I what do I even start with? Like, how do we even start to plan for that?

Lisa Dieker:

and call it a party. Okay. And I say, you know, what, don't invite people to the party, they're going to put put on your punch. Because there's always somebody waiting to undermine your plan. Who is your party goes, but don't rule people out, don't just take the, hey, I'm Lisa Dieker, I'm excited person to people who you say, Hey, I've got a voluntary PD. And if people don't show up,

Rebecca Hines:

I have found exactly the same thing. I always I always ask school leaders and district leaders. Let this be something that people choose. Because all the research shows that when people choose something, they view it differently. And when we execute it well enough, people are asking by the end of it, oh, I want to do that. And that actually happened in the very first school, which I

Lisa Dieker:

I get that fun. And my last tip would be in the sounds crazy. But I say to leaders and administrators, keep an a list in your desk of people that you know when to undermine this. And don't be mean to them. But don't go out of your way to try to convince them, right? Because I often think, oh, I can change somebody's mind. No, it's really mind and behavior. And if they're not

Rebecca Hines:

And in defense of those people who are the naysayers, I get it. You know, we're already feel overloaded. We feel like man, I'm not even prepared to know how to teach these kids much less to add this model. I've seen a lot of teachers in that in that space. And it's not that they it's not that they don't care. It's that they don't feel like it's a good model for them at the

Lisa Dieker:

I agree. Well, if you have questions for us, you can send us a Tweet @accesspractical or you can join us on our Facebook. Thanks for joining us