Unleashing Student Potential: Strategies from a Veteran Teacher including using AI

Summary:
In this episode of "Practical Access," hosts Lisa Dieker and Rebecca Hines welcome special guest Dave Stewart Jr., a veteran high school teacher with nearly two decades of experience teaching English and history and his journey with AI. Dave also writes articles and books to support fellow educators in their classroom practices. The conversation delves into integrating AI tools like ChatGPT into the classroom environment. Dave shares his initial apprehensions about the impact of AI on teaching but highlights the practical applications he's discovered, such as using ChatGPT for brainstorming sessions and debates. Despite concerns about students potentially relying too heavily on AI for their work, Dave emphasizes the importance of maintaining focus on the central purpose of education: fostering critical thinking and independent learning.

Resources:
Dave Stuart Website: https://davestuartjr.com/about/ 

Highlights:
- Exploring AI in Education: Dave Stewart Jr., an experienced high school teacher, joins hosts Lisa Dieker and Rebecca Heinz to discuss the integration of AI tools like ChatGPT in the classroom.
- Practical Applications: Dave shares how he uses ChatGPT for brainstorming sessions and debates, dispelling concerns about over-reliance on AI and emphasizing its supplementary role in teaching.
- Teacher as Coach: The conversation highlights the role of teachers as coaches in guiding students' learning journeys and fostering intrinsic motivation.
- Cultivating Key Beliefs: Dave outlines five key beliefs educators should cultivate in students to promote meaningful learning experiences. 

Transcript

Lisa Dieker 0:07 
Welcome to practical access. I'm Lisa Dicker.  

Rebecca Hines 0:10 
And I'm Rebecca Hines. And Lisa, I know we're both very excited about today's guests. Who do we have?  

Lisa Dieker 0:16 
So today we have with us Dave Stewart Jr. Dave, thank you for joining us. We're so excited to have you.  

Dave Stuart Jr. 0:23  
So glad to be here, Lisa and Rebecca. Thanks for having me.  

Lisa Dieker 0:26 
Yeah. So Dave, can you tell us a little bit about your background and what you do on a daily basis for our listeners, so they'll be as excited as we are about having an authentic and the classroom teacher with us?  

Dave Stuart Jr. 0:37 
Sure, I'm a high school teacher. I've taught English and history to students for about almost 20 years now. And I also write articles and books for teachers to try to help folks like me to just focus in our work and not get upset and stressed out about the latest and greatest, but instead just dial in on the central purposes of this job of being a classroom teacher.  

Lisa Dieker 1:02 
Yeah, and I think that's one of the reasons we reached out to you, I was I was telling you in our in our pre- podcast conversation, you know, I read your article, Chat GPT-8, nothing but a chicken wing. And then you kind of go through this journey. And so we thought that would be a fun beginning discussion, for you to kind of share, you know, I think you said to me, it's not the be all end all. But what are some fun things you're finding? That's helpful, but still not what you said, so beautifully crushing the creativity of your kids, and some of the new AI tools that are coming out?  

Dave Stuart Jr. 1:30 
Yeah, I think that that, you know, this Chat GPT is a very interesting and novel technology, that's certainly going to change many jobs that our students are going to have, and it's going to change mine. So initially, I was a bit stressed out about it. But as I started to experiment with its use in the classroom, I just realized that there's some applications that I can bring tools like Chat GPT in-- like brainstorming, or just my students can practice debating with the with the AI, you know, on a topic and class. I'll do that once in a while. But mostly my students are just going to be writing in a spiral notebook they're going to be having in class verbal discussions. And so this fear that I sense of teachers being afraid that students are just always going to cheat with this tool, or like it's going to take over everything. I've just not found that to be the case, when we want to use it when we have an intentional use for it. Okay, great. But when I want my students doing their own thinking, that's very simple to facilitate with a good old fashioned spiral notebook.  

Lisa Dieker 2:32 
I love I love the rage.  

Rebecca Hines 2:35 
Yeah. And, you know, I love the reference to the spiral notebook. I will say,  I do a lot with Chat GPT and similar tools, and I'm also a former English teacher. So I've kind of looked at this from a similar perspective as you but here's one thing to note, all of our listeners, you know, the research does show that handwriting literally physically handwriting does increase retention. Now, since Lisa and I both, you know, we're in the field of disability. And what we know is that we've over relied sometimes on the handwriting. So first of all, Dave, I really appreciate you mentioning the spiral notebook, and maybe tools like this, you know, AI that's available, does help us marry things in a way of Yeah, meaningfully writing things down by hand to take notes about something you might read on the screen, or to think critically about, you know, a response, right, five, the five most important words that Chet GPT gave you, and then expand on that yourself, you know, think there's a lot of creative things that the kids can do. And certainly it's a good tool for kids with disabilities. Tell us since you're in the field right now, what do you see your colleagues worrying about? With this type of tool?  

Dave Stuart Jr. 3:59 
Well, they're just very concerned that students won't do writing assignments on their own. You know, I mean, it's a huge concern in the English language arts, with students using the device to write their essays for them. That's a concern there with my math colleagues, that they're worried about students just typing the problem into the Chat GPT and Chat GPT spits out the answer with the work shown. Or, you know, some tools allow the, you just take a picture of the math problem, the textbook, they'll spit it out. So, you know, people just are worried about students not doing the work of learning, basically, just turning things in, that they haven't actually worked to create. And that's, that's certainly a valid concern, because learning doesn't happen if we don't do anything, right. But  then again, these have been problems, you know, since I was in high school decades ago. You couldn’t Chat GPT. But you could use a smart friend, you could use a, you know, an upperclassman, who had taken the class before. So it's not like cheating is all sudden been made possible? And these are conversations that we teachers need to have other students again and again, what is what is all this work for? Why do we do things like write essays? Why do we do practice problems at home? And then we need to just accept that. If our students don't understand and have their own, why, for why to do work to do the work of learning, then Chat GPT or no, they'll likely find ways to shortcut the process to their to the detriment of their learning.  

Rebecca Hines 5:44 
Yeah. And do you? Do you feel like there needs to be a bit of a shift in how teachers see their own their own roles? I know, in your in your blog, I feel like you allude to that a little bit to some of the things that I often think about it is this idea of, of coaching kids and really helping them to understand how to use any new tools that come up, to meet their own goals to meet their career goals, et cetera.  

Dave Stuart Jr.  6:15 
Yeah, and really, to, you know, teachers, all of us all subject areas need to be thinking of ourselves as coaches for our students of how learning just works. How do you acquire skill? How do you how do you gain the ability to think critically to solve problems? To convince someone of an argument, the tool that's available to us now Chat, GPTT, it could it could potentially be a useful assistant in this journey, but at the end of the day, it's me who has to put forth the argumentation, it's me who needs to perform in the actual arena of whatever I'm trying to do, whether it's an interpersonal relationship, or something related to a to a professional conversation. You know, until that Chat, GPT is like controlling my mouth and actually saying my words for me, I still need to build this. And so all my students, and I say this them all the time, like, you still are ultimately just going to have this like this. This is what's going to be with you every day for the rest of your life. And so  how can we build that? What is this? I'm pointing at my mind here? In other words for the audio. Like, how do we how do I strengthen that? How do we strengthen my mind? I need to be talking to my students about that all the time coaching them all the time about how to do that well.  

Lisa Dieker 7:39 
I think one of the things I see in visiting schools and classrooms, I've just spent four days out in schools and, you know, the executive functioning and the motivation of kids and I know you have a book “The Will to learn”, that just you just put out in May, about kids motivation. And as a person who I have a son who has Tourette's and and dysgraphia. And the ability to write is hard. How do you help kids get the will to learn in your English class? What as a teacher should I be doing besides pleading, begging? You know, getting them started? What are some things that you found really to get kids to have that will to learn in those language arts classes?  

Dave Staurt Jr  8:18 
Well, I break it down into five beliefs. The first of which is credibility. So we need to start with does this student believe that I actually care about them as a learner, genuinely care about who they are, what they're trying to do? And so there's certain things that we can do that cultivate credibility. The next is value. Am I helping students to actually value this work? How do I help them to do that? And sometimes it's me saying why English is important. Other times, it's asking them. Let's say someone comes in there, and they say, you're never going to write, and you’re never going to have to have discussions about novels, English classes is pointless. What would you say to them? What would you say to them to argue back? What could you say, I can ask my students things like this once in a while, and it'll get them coming up with for themselves? Why this class is valuable. So that's really what that book focuses on. It focuses on cultivating each of five key beliefs using very simple, doable, sustainable methods as a teacher.  

Rebecca Hines 9:27 
And do you think as an English teacher, you know, we do focus on on writing often. Do you think that AI and other types of tools like this call for us to broaden our thinking about writing as communication, and  possibly expand the field to think more broadly about other forms of communication than just writing?  

Dave Stuart Jr.  9:57 
Well, absolutely, I think like speaking is a forgotten language art, Eric Palmer, who wrote the book, well spoken. He's the first person I heard say that. And I, I believe he's absolutely correct. I think overall, though, with writing, we're just going to have the reconceptualized what's writing for? Because now, if I can, you know, ask Chat GPT to write a cover letter for my resume and I can feed it the resume. Well, I guess maybe the cover letter task is taken care of. But the task of performing well in that job interview will not be taken care of. And oftentimes, your cover letter writing that cover letter is goinng to make you much sharper in the interview. You know what I mean? Because this this purpose of writing, writing as a tool to make me think sharper, and more clearly, that purpose remains even in a Chat GPT world. And so I think that that's this is where English classes have to go, we have to start to communicate with our students about what why do we have why do we write all these essays anyways? What is the point of this, I mean, you're not going to do this in the real world. No, but you're going to think in the real world, you're going to need to be able to clarify the fog of thought into something that can be communicated to another human being, you yourself are going to need to be capable of doing that. And so writing is, in my experience, the best, most reliable way to improve the capability that I have to think and Chat GPT won't fix it. It won't, it won't ever help me to think better, unless I'm, you know, really engaging with what Chat GPT has given me back. And you know, I'm, I'm really pushing myself with with Chat GPT. And that's hard to do. Because Chat GPT just, it just feels very easy, feels very magical. And it can kind of lull the mind into it into a passive role. That's perfect for some things that are really monotonous and boring. You know, like, you know, a cover letter, when you're applying for a bunch of jobs, it is kind of monotonous to write all these different cover letters. So I can see that being a useful tool, but I'd want to make sure that I was really practicing a lot of interview questions, just myself, writing out answers to interview questions myself practicing, answering those in the mirror, those types of things so that I could do well in the interview, because Chat GPT won't help you do that.  

Lisa Dieker 12:40  
So imagine for a minute, Dave, that you're brand new first year teacher coming out of University of Kansas, University of Central Florida, and you're going to teach ninth grade language arts? What would be your go to in the first week of the job to do? And the thing to be sure you don't do? I'm kind of curious what you would share. It doesn't have to be tech related. I'm just curious where you'd be like, make sure you do this, and just don't to do this.  

Dave Stuart Jr. 13:08 
Yeah, I mean, what I would not do is spend the whole first week on just sort of content agnostic relationship building. Get into what the class is about, give your students a taste of the of the learning that you have on offer here. This is a common trap that teachers can fall into even experienced teachers. And I think relationships are best built on the journey of learning, versus this kind of artificial pre learning, relationship building. So I caution with that. The thing to do, I would say is just learn every kid's name in that first week. As a secondary teacher, that's actually kind of hard to do. You know, but it's possible, and it kind of trains you to really pay attention to the individuals, to the individuality of your students, that's going to help you become credible faster.  

Lisa Dieker 14:05 
Yeah, one thing that I know I recommended earlier podcasts that teachers said to me is she has all the kids do a Flipgrid. So she can take it home at night and reminder who they are, you know, as you know, Hi, I'm Lisa and I like cats or whatever. But I get that I think it's a it's really important, but it you're right, as a secondary teacher, it's really hard. So that's a great, great tip.  

Dave Stuart Jr. 14:25 
What a great activity for the first week, right? Because you get the faces, you get the voice and mannerisms, something about them. So I might actually steal that. 

Lisa Dieker 14:34 
Okay. Its from another listener. So thank you.  

Rebecca Hines 14:37 
Yeah. And then my final question for you, Dave is similarly if you were to tell a new teacher, you know, yeah, here's what I recommend for your very first writing prompt that first week like what's a specific. What's something because you've really articulated well, this need to kind of come after your audience and demonstrate that you care, and all of these things, but it's, it's hard for a lot of people to strike that balance early on, you know? What, what do you assign?  

Dave Stuart Jr. 15:15
Yeah, often like to ask secondary students right out of the gate, tell me about the kind of person you want to be in 10 years, you know, describe the kind of person so not necessarily the job, but what do you want to be like, as a human being. And I can use this to get a sense of the students values. And also, I can use this to remind them as we go through the journey of the semester. Hey, just remember, you know, you don't become you know, dependable, just magically, you don't, you don't become hard working just magically. It's by working hard. It's by coming through when things are difficult like this, those character attributes are built through situations that challenge them. So that's a nice, that's like a nice beginning of the, like, first day even writing assignment that I like to give my students.  

Rebecca Hines 16:09  
Yeah, I love it.  

Lisa Dieker 16:12 
Well, so any, any last words of wisdom from the language arts field that you just want to share? In general, like my favorite thing to do my favorite activity to wrap up this this short, quick podcast? It's been very informative.  

Dave Stuart Jr. 16:25 
I just think that the biggest thing on my heart for early career teachers right now is, is that this still is a beautiful career. I think I think there's going to be people starting the exact time you're starting. And they're going to retire in 30 years, they're going to look back on a well spent career. And that could be you. It is going to be difficult, but it was difficult for people 30 years ago as well. So don't believe all the hype. That education is like, kind of uniquely hard now in a way that it's never been before. It's absolutely difficult. But I think education has always been a difficult endeavor in human history. So hang in there.  

Lisa Dieker 17:05  
A lot of rewarding it sounds like Well, kids are lucky to have you. We are lucky to have had you on our podcast and we really appreciate your words of wisdom and keep up your blogs are really fun. And I love following your thinking and your great words. If you have questions for us. You can tweet us at Access practical, or you can post a question on our Facebook page. Thank you again, Dave.