Practical Access Podcast

S12 E8: Breaking Barriers with Assistive Technology in Math and Science

• Season 12 • Episode 8

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In this episode of Practical Access, hosts Lisa Dieker and Rebecca Hines dive into the critical role of assistive technology (AT) in math and science education with guest Dr. Tiffanie Zaugg. Dr. Zaugg is a former AAC Coordinator in the school district of Iowa and creator of EL, a chatbot designed to revolutionize teaching practices and enhance student learning experiences. Dr. Zaugg shares insights on using AT to support students with diverse needs. The discussion highlights:

  • Framework for AT Use: Exploring the SETT Framework (Student, Environment, Tasks, Tools) to identify specific needs before selecting tools.
  • AI and AT Innovations: Utilizing AI-driven tools like MathGPT and platforms like Microsoft's Math Solver to enhance accessibility and comprehension.
  • Accessible Resources: Recommendations like the Inclusive 365 guide and leveraging built-in device features for speech-to-text, text-to-speech, and more.
  • Teacher Empowerment: Strategies for new educators to build a basic AT toolkit, even in resource-limited settings, and the importance of shifting mindsets around AT as an essential, not optional, resource.
  • Debates on Technology in Classrooms: Navigating trends like cell phone restrictions and their implications for students relying on mobile devices as AT.

Dr. Zaugg also addresses resistance to AT use, offering practical ways to reframe its importance and promote its integration in classrooms. Whether you're a teacher, administrator, or parent, this episode provides actionable strategies to ensure students can thrive with the support of assistive technology.

Tune in for a thoughtful discussion that reimagines how we approach learning in STEM through innovation and accessibility.

We love to hear from our listeners! If you have any questions, feel free to reach out. We look forward to receiving your questions on our Twitter (@Accesspractical) or Instagram (@Practical_Access).

Resources: 

Tiffanie’s Chatbot, EL: https://www.canva.com/design/DAF4ZnhZ8TI/bGhftIi8zBjLuBFANJBP2w/view?utm_content=DAF4ZnhZ8TI&utm_campaign=designshare&utm_medium=link&utm_source=editor 

Equatio: https://www.texthelp.com/products/equatio/ 

Math Solver: https://math.microsoft.com/en 

MathGPT: https://math-gpt.org/ 

Inclusive 365: https://inclusive365.com/

Lisa Dieker:

Welcome to Practical Access. I'm Lisa Dieker.

Rebecca Hines:

And I'm Rebecca Hines and Lisa, today's guest is someone that we know has a broad experience and background in technology in general, today we're going to tap into a specific area. Tell us what that is.

Lisa Dieker:

Yeah, so we're excited to be talking about AT support in science and math, but we're equally excited to have a friend and a colleague that we now can call Dr. Tiffanie Zaugg. Welcome Dr. Zaugg, we're so glad we're with you, and we'll call you Tiffanie from this point forward.

Tiffanie Zaugg:

Thank you for having me.

Lisa Dieker:

So, I'm gonna kick off the first question. I am a new teacher. I am teaching math, and I have a kid who's struggling with comprehending math. What's what's a go to, what assistive technology? Where do I go find who do I even talk to to get this name? Does it just fall into the my lap? Where? Where do we start?

Tiffanie Zaugg:

Well, I would reach out to, you know, every state does assistive technology a little differently. Who are the, I hate using the word experts, because I feel like everybody isn't. You know, technology changes so quickly that everybody is an expert, or could be an expert, but reach out to if your district has someone, there's people at the state level. There's state funded or Office of Special Education funded AT people. But one of the things I would say is really thinking about there is a framework that we use in assistive technology called the SETT Framework, by Joy Zabala, and it's really as a new teacher or new to assistive technology, going through what SETT stands for. First thing we want to talk about is the student. What is what areas are the student having issues with? I I even think about science, right? Science, there's really not a disability for science, it's more, do they have a reading is it a reading difficulty? Is it a writing difficulty? Same way with math, what is it that the student is struggling with? Right? So we really need to know what it is about the student, what's the environment? E is environment. Where is this taking place? Is it math class? Is it, I'm struggling with math concepts in science and social science and mathematics, right? And then what is the specific task we want the student to be able to do you know, are they? Is it a physical disability? Maybe struggling with handwriting or lining up problems? Is it executive functioning? All of those things are important to be able to narrow down. What if you'll notice last the last thing, the last T is tools, because we like to jump to tools, right? Like, oh, you know, these are the fun little things to do, but when we're talking about assistive technology, we really need to go through the framework to get us to what kind of tools are specific to the students area of need.

Rebecca Hines:

So, I definitely agree with all of those things as someone who is has an interest in AI, as I know you do, do we now have some some steps, you know, when I go through that process? I know you've created a tool that is designed for educators. Is there a way that we can help teachers learn to look for solutions themselves or suggestions themselves, so that they can have a more clear request when they go and try to find the tool that they're looking for?

Tiffanie Zaugg:

So yes, if you or you for say, we'll just throw EL out there. If I was a teacher and I was using my AI chat bot, EL, I would be asking, I have a student who is struggling in the area of mathematics. I would be specific as to what that that is right, like, what task do I want them to be able to do. Is it a multiplication? Is it? Is it, you know, they're struggling with fractions what, and then asking what tools are available, or what assistive technology is available for that student. Because, you know, there are so many from low tech to high tech, and when I say low tech, I'm talking like it could be a math manipulative, right? Like I could just go get pennies out of my purse and be using that to help with money, right? So to high tech, which could be, you know, Equatio is a product by Texthelp that is is for mathematics, itmakes math accessible. So there's just a lot of different options. And what I would say, first off, think about what you have currently yourself, you know, like what tools, every product is required, or every platform. And when I say platform, I mean, is it a Mac? Is it a PC? Is it a tablet? What accessibility features are built into them? First, right? We always want to use what is readily available to us. So for example, if you're struggling with math, Microsoft has a math website. I brought them up so I would remember all of the different names. But, Microsoft has Math Solver, so you can put a math problem in Math Solver and it's going to solve it out and give you the step-by-step on how to how to solve a math problem. So really thinking about what tools you have available already built into your device, right? I just saw that Apple, the IOS 18 is coming out with a math tablet that goes along with it's a math notebook, is what it's called, and it's geared towards making it accessible, making math accessible on a tablet, or actually on an on an iPad, right? iPad 18, and using the pencil and I can write out my problems, it's going to help me solve them and walk through it. So, there's constantly new technology coming out, obviously, which we know about MathGPT is something that's brand new, or it's newer and it's using AI. And I just read an article where a lot of the colleges in California are using it because they're not allowed to have basic math classes in college anymore. So these are tools that we can be able to use. One of the other things as I go down my my path here, there is Inclusive 365 is a book. It is a wet and there's also a website that gives you 365 different tools in specific areas. So I could go in and I could look it's inclusive365.com is the website. I can go and say I'm looking for something in STEAM: science, technology, education, arts and mathematics, right? And it's going to give me a whole bunch of different strategies that I could be using in those areas. I could look for it in reading like it has all of the different areas. So there's a lot of great resources out there that will help pull those strategies you need specifically for students. So if I was a beginning teacher, and if I had well, if I had my way, I would make sure everybody had that book or the website, because it does provide a lot of content, specific strategies. Mike Marotta, Karen Janikowski, Beth Poss and Christopher Bugaj are the authors. They're world renowned AT people, and they've just done a really great job of giving you an idea of different tools, but it's content specific, task specific, and that's really what we want to make sure we're doing, instead of just randomly throwing tools at a student and seeing what catches, which unfortunately has happened a lot in the past.

Lisa Dieker:

Yeah, and that's and that's a great opening to the question I wanted to ask you. So I hear this a lot, and I know your answer will match my answer, but people will say,"Well, I don't know if that kid can use text-to-speech, because they can't use it on the state tests." And I'm like, Well, I don't care, because one day out of the year isn't the same as 179 and kids will learn more if they can learn with ease. But, but what I find teachers say to me, when they follow up with that, like, okay, I get it. That's okay. Is it? Like, "I don't know what to use. I don't know where to get it." So one of the things I've been recommending, I'm kind of curious what you how you see is that people have, like, a tool kit in their district. Like, these are the 10 things. Because the problem comes that if a kid moves a lot, or the kids in state A, they can have a keyboard in state B, they can't. You know, it becomes this whole catch 22 but I'm kind of curious, like, maybe, what are your two or three go-tos that if I'm a teacher, and I'm in a rural school where there is no AT support? It's me, myself and I or I'm, you know, a new teacher, and I don't even know who to call, like, where would be, besides the accessible features built in, like, what should I make sure my students are having access to, kind of on a daily basis? And how do I do I build that skill set with the little time I have?

Tiffanie Zaugg:

So, you talk about speech-to-text, text-to-speech, I think those are any more to me. That's just a given. I always like to use the scenario that we those are tools that are readily available, that we're already using, right? You've, the history of AT, you know, everything starts as assistive technology, and then it gets to the point where it becomes general, and now we all have access to it, right? So why not teach the students to use tools that they already have? You know, the obviously having a calculator available. I know it intrigues me that still today we have the whole conversation about, well, even calculators are still cheating. And I'm like, come on, people look good. This is 2024, but having that understanding of why those tools are important and how to move forward with those tools. So I would say, use what's built in, because we know that all devices have speech-to-text, text-to-speech built into them. There's a calculator built in there somewhere, right? And then when you talk about state tests, I would consider looking at a state test that has those accessibility features built in, because there are state tests now that have those built in, and pushing the envelope, and as AT people, that is something we've been really trying to do in states, is pushing that, those tools to get them built in so it's not a but they don't get to use it on state test, right?

Lisa Dieker:

And yet, I argue too that I understand state tests are validated. You know, two years ago, on a large sample and tech changes before the test validated changes. But, yeah, it's an interesting piece. And I and, and yet I also think, and I think you would agree that kids should know how to use the tech themselves, like they should be able to say to the teacher, Hey, these are the three tools I'm using. And if you have questions about it, see me like I think we're kind of in a new shift, where it should be that I come to school. So my last question for you would be, is cell phones? There's a new trend across the country of cell phones being put away. And yet, it's a hard one for me to argue, because I'm just like, Bring on the tech. Yet, I've been in schools where kids tell me they love that their cell phones are put away. I've been in other schools that have it. What? What do you see as the trend in the AT world, and that, especially in math and science, where it is a tool for that? And that's, that's my last question. I'll let you finish it up.

Tiffanie Zaugg:

Oh, you know that is I've been reading those articles in the whole shift. But then I also have seen students, where obviously their AT is their phone, for example, Bookshare, okay, if I am a student that needs my textbooks read to me, Bookshare is free to students with reading disability, A I'm not. My student doesn't have to carry 40 books in their backpack, right? Like so there's some physical things, but having those books with them at all times, in an all spaces that is accessible to them at all times, I have a hard time taking that away. So where, where litigiously Are we going to end up when a teacher tells a student you can't have your cell phone, but it's a it's their access to curriculum. So I think there's gonna probably be, unfortunately, some legal issues that arise by taking that. And I know you could put Bookshare on a tablet, and then it becomes their AT that way, but I look at it, my cell phone probably just like yours, is my assistive technology. If I don't have my calendar, I'm probably not going to tell you what I'm supposed to be doing today at 2:30 with Lisa and Becky.

Rebecca Hines:

Yeah, Tiffanie, I think that's a great a great response. My My final question, I know that you have extensive background working with teachers at the district and state level in Iowa, what what is your elevator speech? What is your recurring statement? To those who are resistant to using AT I'm sure you must have come across that throughout your career.

Tiffanie Zaugg:

Oh, I do. My favorite, my favorite example of this was I was doing professional development in a school district, and the high school basketball coach was a social studies teacher. And right away is like, oh, our students don't need AT and AT, you know, blah, blah, blah was going on, and I said to him, I said, I can think of assistive technology that you do use in a basketball game on a regular basis. You may not think about it as assistive technology, but it's there when you need it, and you have access to it, and what would you do without it? And he's like, I don't either. And I said, What about the scoreboard? Right? A scoreboard is pretty important to a coach when the time's ticking down in seconds, but having that available. Having what they need when they need it is so important, and if they don't, what do you do? So, I try to have my elevator speech directed with little nuances, directed towards that person and where they're coming from. You know, visual schedules is always something I always get well, like, you don't, you know, like, they should know their schedule by now, and you know, they've had their visual schedule. They don't need it anymore. Um, so having those, having those little sayings, or little ways that I can tweak it and make it personable to that person is really more my elevator speech. I know that doesn't give you a specific but.

Rebecca Hines:

No, that's, that's exactly that's exactly right. I agree. I agree with that. And then the reason I asked you is because I feel like those of us who work with kids with disabilities in particular, we all need to have a response, even shoulder to shoulder, for our peers who say it, because it's just not intuitive to everyone, and we can all do more to communicate that idea of, you know, what does AT actually do? It just provides access.

Tiffanie Zaugg:

Well, I and I, I think this was a aha through my dissertation process, when I asked the teachers about their future use of allowing students to use AI, and their comment to me was, well, as long as they can show me they know how to do it first, and then it, something clicked in me, my AT part of my world, and it's like, is that where we're still having barriers, right? Is it still that mindset that you have to show me without technology, that you can do something before I allow you to use technology to do that? And that is truly a barrier that we've got to to figure out how to to break that mindset in that cycle. So if you, you know, if you guys have some great ideas, I'm all for that too.

Lisa Dieker:

Well and I love that breaking the cycle that kids can do science and math with AT, instead of let them do science and math and then show them AT. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Tiffanie. And if you have any questions, please send us a Tweet @Access Practical or on our Facebook page, @Practical Access. Thank you again for joining us, and congratulations on your doctorate.

Rebecca Hines:

Thank you.